November 21, 2022 at 11:13 am #2174EzekielGuest
I’ve seen a few people online including this site express the opinion that we are living in the End Times. I do not hold to this view personally, and was curious why some people believe this here, if they’d like to discuss the matter.
Certainly the situation today is confusing and bad in some ways. But like the Arian heresy, which reduced Catholics to a small number, or the Western Schism, where there was confusion about who the pope was or if there was a pope, the world didn’t end but the Church eventually kind of came back to “order” afterward. I have presumed throughout much of what’s going on today that eventually this would happen here as well. A lot of things don’t really look like they’re in place for the world to end.
Some have argued “Paul VI” was the Anti-Christ for “abolishing the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass” by instituting the New Mass. This doesn’t really seem to line up with Scripture though, as there was no “mark of the beast” nor was it made forbidden to “buy or sell” without it. I have also seen people say we are living in the “Great Apostasy” which also doesn’t seem correct, as that was supposed to be a specific movement away from religion connected to the rise of the Anti-Christ and his false religion. There is apostasy going on, sure, but this does not seem to be the “Great Apostasy”, nor does it seem like the “Anti-Christ” has reigned. Nor does it seem clear to me this is immediately coming, as the world is divided and not united around Anti-Christ. For example, right now in Europe there are protests going on which threaten to break up the European Union (EU) over their energy crisis.
It was also argued John Paul II was the anti-Christ for similar reasons perhaps like the Assisi gathering event, but to me this theory suffers from the same defects as the theory of “Paul VI” being the anti-Christ.
In this Catholic book on the Anti-Christ, it sounds like almost nothing lines up with our current times about a description of how certain conflicts will go down: https://archive.org/details/huchede-history-anti-christ-best-version
Elsewhere this made someone ask if there are two great apostasies, because of some “trads” today saying we’re in the “Great Apostasy”, while I thought that was only supposed to be a time connected to Anti-Christ.
Another thing that makes me skeptical is failed predictions of people about a Three Days of Darkness prophecy which I also don’t think will happen. The Three Days of Darkness would have to be a practically apocalyptic scenario which seems doubtful.
Along with that, in history there have been many incorrect end times predictions: https://infogalactic.com/info/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events
Even a couple popes thought maybe the world would end but it didn’t. “1000 Jan 1 – Pope Sylvester II – Various Christian clerics predicted the end of the world on this date, including Pope Sylvester II. Riots occurred in Europe and pilgrims headed east to Jerusalem.” “Pope Innocent III (d. 1216) predicted that the world would end 666 years after the rise of Islam.” (1284?)
The Bible says only God knows when the end of the world will be, so it’s possible it could be coming soon, as I don’t know. But I don’t see any reason to believe it is any closer either. (“But of that day or hour no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father.” Mark 13:32 – it does say we can judge seasons and maybe when it seems closer though in Matthew 24:32 – “And from the fig tree learn a parable: When the branch thereof is now tender, and the leaves come forth, you know that summer is nigh.”)
What do you think on this topic? If you think the world is soon to end, are you aware of such previous popes having tried to predict the end of the world, and that others argue against this view?
I guess I would hold this view as being an opinion and it should be ok to not hold it as an opinion too since no one knows when the end will be except God.
(Sometimes called “terminalism”, or a view that the Church is like “terminally ill” and about to “die”.)
(There’s also a wiki article on the topic that mentions sedevacantists, although it didn’t seem to shed much extra light on the issues to me: https://infogalactic.com/info/Great_Apostasy)
November 22, 2022 at 1:48 pm #2428Robert RobbinsKeymaster
I think I already addressed this topic in another topic:
If you cannot see that we are in the Great Apostasy then Heaven help you. You have a lot of good information, but your thinking is disconnected and lacks clarity. You let one speculation (for instance, that a pope incorrectly predicted the End Times) hold sway and undermine a commonsensical observation of fact: we are living in a nigh total abandonment of the faith, the likes of which has never been seen. The Sacrifice of the Mass has been abolished. Except for online, no single Catholic knows any other Catholic, such is the disparity of the faithful—by the way, during the Arian crisis, it was the hierarchy not the laity which universally defected, but which defection was only heresy, not apostasy: today it is apostasy from the Faith. Thus, to go on in your fashion, dismissing fact for speculation is dangerous and only aides the Enemy.
You have your own ideas and that’s fine. But do not think that I am going to allow you to post topic after topic on here only to undermine the very points upon which this website is based: viz., that we are living during the reign of Antichrist, it is the Great Apostasy, and this is the Apocalypse. There are those who would read your words and, on account of their mollifying quality, fall back asleep and forget about the Second Coming altogether.
So, if you wish to continue to post here, do so with the understanding that the hardline of this website is that we are living during the End Times. If you disagree, then you are welcome to say so elsewhere.
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