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Let this space be a place where intelligent discussion may take place on the question of whether Shepherds and Teachers must exist in the Church until the end of time, the consummation of the age, the Second Coming, or if there is not distinction between these, and to reconcile one’s belief however it may fall, with the crisis in the Church at present where there appears to be no Shepherds in Teachers in sight.
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Robert and Mr. Strauss,
Thank you for this forum topic and article.
I think this distinction makes a lot of sense and fits the facts of our present situation. It seems to me that the false council is a clear type of consummation as well as the reign of the false popes (system of the antichrist), and the great apostasy of the Christen world in terms of faith and morals.
I look forward to reading more about thoughts on the topic.
-Gregory
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“Fits the facts” is the key for me. It matters nothing if our theories do not fit the facts, and the fact is, there are no Pastors and Shepherds in the Church. Sure, there are a lot of well-meaning, very nice men in clerical garb, but the FACT is, all these men recognize a man as pope who one’s own seven-year-old sees as an apostate. It is impossible to reconcile this fact with one’s theory that there must be Shepherds and Teachers until the end of the world, as in even now during the consummation of the age, as Eugen aptly shows us we are in. Those who would try to do so are proceeding from an intention-doctrine based premise, and trying to argue for a reality based upon that. It is modernist and, one might even go so far as to say, Nietzschean, insofar as it is, though not intentional, placing the will over the intellect in terms of determining reality.
I hope that was intelligible, but if not, I can sum it up by saying: facts are first, then theory. That is Thomistic and Catholic thinking.
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Every time I heard someone (e.g. Lefebvrist Bernard Fellay or one of his “priests”) compare the passion of the Lord and the current destruction of the Church, I felt repugnance. Comparing the passion of the Lord with a punishment of our own decadent “clerus” and “faithful” rejecting the truth?
My understanding of the situation began, when I read the Opus imperfectum in Matthaeum comparing the destruction of Jerusalem A.D. 70 (what most people still saw as Jerusalem) and the destruction of the Church (what most people still saw as the Church). That’s the comparison the Lord himself presents in the olivet apocalypse found in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 (and 17), and I believe it’s the key to understand what’s been happening here since the 1960s.
(Eugen is the E. in B. E. Strauss)
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The quotations compiled by Eric Hoyle (linked in his Disqus comment below the blog post, and in this comment below) demonstrate why most people believe that there will be shepherds and teachers until the moment of the second coming of the Lord. The last verses of the Gospel of Matthew are referenced plenty of times, but the question of the exact meaning of “consummatio saeculi” is not raised, rather buried below the predominant translation “end of the world” or even “as long as the world will last”.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QDIgP3PbQmf1LFmMJDpCtVMWlGXH36TM/view
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And it is the point that the meaning of the phrase “consummationem saeculi” is not examined itself., which is actually the most important point of the dispute: TO WHEN will there always be Shepherds and Teachers!
Facts, proper Latin translation, and Church Fathers and theologians all point to that time being up to the reign of the Antichrist, not to the Second Coming.
I would like it if Eric could grace Galaxy Forum with his presence and speak to the points being made here!
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